22 replies to this topic

[trusoul]

the fine line between kwaito and vernacular hiphop..........


forgive me but i simply have to ask

guys tell me why is it that people like j-stash can openly diss rappers like pitch black afro about how they cant even rhyme in english?

does the queens english determine your music genre?

what happens when a so called kwaito artist does a collabo with a so called hiphop artist, what genre does the song or even better- the album fall under?

why is it that you are called a snob/chiz boy/chiz gal/model c if your spitting is totally on the queens level?

people say kwaito has changed, is it me or has it changed inclining itself towards vernacular hiphop?

has freedom of speech been so defiled to a point where our right to it encroaches on other peoples rights to make a living?

is beef really neccessary people, cant we be entertained by people sending out subliminal messages of brotherly love and peace?

why do some rappers feel superior to kwaito artists when it it indeed kwaito artits who are topping more charts, and are being received by larger audiences?

hmmmmmmmmm :?: :?: :?: :?:

tell me something people, i battle with these thoughts everyday.

[TeeZeR]

Good topic, i saw this on Monday but couldn't reply! Okay here's what i think, people who always has a lot to say (Hip-Hop artists) always find those with less verbals (Kwaito Artists) to be some fools or some sht like that! Kabelo is a Hip-Hop head, but he is a kwaito artist...his lyrics are more of hip-hop inspired! Kwaito has always been something from Kasi, it was meant to make you dance...at the same time, give the message! I love kwaito, always did!

I respect kwaito for what it is...in the past it had no much lyric content...but now it's facing another generation, it's being more lyricized. Every MC has something to write about...to get attention;
Skwatta > Media (Mostly)
Selwyn > Kwaito
Prokid > Reflects kasi life

ProVerb and ProKid...we all know how famous ProKid is, but still...there are a lot of people who doesn't know about ProVerb! Why? Memium lingo of Lyric content. Most people from kasi connect more with native written songs, or atleast local English written. I live in kasi, and sometimes I try to get someone to hear some ill punchline and you find that person goin..oh yo..haai ke yona! Sho! But facial expression would be depicting the opposite. So it's all about who you wanna reach! And doing that in the language you can best represent it in!

About J Stash...i think such cats are jus lookin for attention. I think Hip-Hop is all about you, expressing what you feel or reflecting what you see to others! English, Sotho, Zulu...well in any lingo, if it's Hip-Hop it's Hip-Hop!

Quote

because of the lack of truth...
brothers perceptions become pestilent
thinking by speaking good english they are intelligent

Fck J-Stash!

[bashin]

I once saw a headline onda HYPE mag bout this J-ASS(Stash) guy havin beef with SK but i couldnt go into detail.Wassup with le outie, he seems 2 be beefin with every1.

somebody tell me.what gives kwaito the upperhand over aboMrepa when it comes to the sales?

[TeeZeR]

AddictiveSoul said:

Kwaito as a whole though, is just about making people get down. Yes there is a message, but alot of it is irrelevant. eg : "shiy' iscefe...siyodlimali (sp)" ? and "siya groova akekh'ugogo"....?
I'm Not putting your music down Tee, but.... *shrugz*
.....................
Hiphop probably aint really getting to the people too well as yet, coz although they do talk about relevant shyt like life ekasi or whateva - the way they're getting that message across to Mzansi cats is not effective. They're adopting the Americans' way of doing things... talking about "the hood".... I mean we wanna hear about our people's hustle to the top. SA style, not the way some Bronx brotha would do it! Yes Prokid is gettin' it right..

Jeah...kwaito was infact meant to make you dance...originally! But I think the criticisms lead it to a point of it to like..."have a message in it"! Remember that with most of our people...whenever you hear a track with someone bubbling long English in it...you jus go on to press "SKIP"! Meaning our people were not...in a nutshell...interested in vocab or messages(history) in songs! That's why you have 50 Cent and other mainstream cats having high sales for their "Baby I love you" OR "Suck my lollipop" rhymes...this is no DIFFERENT from shiy' iscefe!

Well...i dunno, different people are interested in different things, but there are some who are still ignorant! :wink:

[bashin]

[quote name="TeeZeR"] [quote name="AddictiveSoul"]
That's why you have 50 Cent and other mainstream cats having high sales for their "Baby I love you" OR "Suck my lollipop" rhymes...this is no DIFFERENT from shiy' iscefe!

100% correct Mfethu!!!

[trusoul]

AddictiveSoul said:

[Hiphop probably aint really getting to the people too well as yet, coz although they do talk about relevant shyt like life ekasi or whateva - the way they're getting that message across to Mzansi cats is not effective. They're adopting the Americans' way of doing things... talking about "the hood".... I mean we wanna hear about our people's hustle to the top. SA style, not the way some Bronx brotha would do it! Yes Prokid is gettin' it right.. yo gurl[/b][/i][/color]

personally, i second my nubian sister where she talks about how SA hiphop at the moment is still america orientated, that's why some people might not relate, also DARKIES OUT THERE JUST WANT TO SAKA AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOW DEEP A POET/RAPPER IS i feel people are slowly warming up to the idea, as for j-stash what he had in mind had the opposite effect, so all those who intend on riding others peoples waves here is a tip don't it's not impressing at all. english has always been a debate chizboy chizgal ifeel people must educate themselves and stop hating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

thanks to all of you who have made an input it's really worth while to hear your views
much love!
trusoul
:D

[0z]

in my opinion:
Kwaito has changed a lot, it used to be this dance/house beat with a single line of lyrics repeated over and over. Now you get get kwaito songs with a whole page of lyrics( with some exceptions ). Kwaito(presently) can safely be classified as the South African version of Hip Hop.
Similar cases: Reggae then and Reggae Now ( i'm not saying Reggae is like Kwaito but merely stating that Their evolution's heading to the same direction)
Both genres are now emulating Hip Hop.

And Jay Stash: That was his strategy to get noticed ( flyers don't do it for him )

Well, thats what I think

-Oz

[TeeZeR]

0z said:

Both genres are now emulating Hip Hop.

Indeed...but it's quite hard for a hip-hop artist to say kwaito is a South African version of hip-hop! I really feel what you're saying...hip-hop is all about life and all conscious issues, and back then kwaito artists didn't have a lot to say, instead...they summarized it all in one or two lines! But right now it's all changing! On the real note...I kwaito is reaching a state where it would be debatable to call it SA Hip Hop! But most lyrics written are still wack...commercial appeal! So it has another miles to travel, maybe this journey will be quickened by emerging artists! We all know that there are lot of artists who are hip-hop motivated but are doing kwaito! Eg. Zola* and Kabelo!

[AGNITO]

http://www.iamnaira.com

[Uncaged Thot]

im big on MESSAGE, not this monotonous ish going on in the KWAITO industry. why duz everything have to boil dwn to money! im not into this CAPITALIST approach to everything. let's not measure the worth of good music ka nyuku. HIPHOP hs no money yes but it has message and that will give it staying power! i love my people but if they suck they suck! wht the fuck is "Naa ja." it is already out of fashion....Shit has no staying power! on the other hand most hiphop tracks of today will still be playing in the next 10 years. ther are KWAITO cats ba ba sharp but u can count them mo letsogong le le 1.So this whole KWAI-HOP aint working 4 me. but i must admit though PROKID is doing it justice. i wonder if WOZ'UZO BA bONA will stil be the ish in the next 5yrs.

[Lwaziology]

Quote

TRUSOUL Q1)guys tell me why is it that people like j-stash can openly diss rappers like pitch black afro about how they cant even rhyme in english?

does the queens english determine your music genre?

Trusoul, your qs are on some thought provoking shit. I like that.
So here goes...

Eintlek, FUCK THE QUEEN'S LANGUAGE! I hate the fact that I'm communicating with another Black person(I hope) in this stolen language. Stolen greek, latin, all dat shit.
About Pitch black and j-stash. Let's just leave that bizarre front alone.

NEXT.

Quote

Q2)what happens when a so called kwaito artist does a collabo with a so called hiphop artist, what genre does the song or even better- the album fall under?

That shit should be banned! It should be a HipHop commandment, actually, second to- THOU SHALL NOT RAP SHIT. hhhmmm, what shall we call it? THOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MUSIC ADULTERY! Kwaito sleeping with HipHop is striaght up BABYLON!

Quote

Q3)why is it that you are called a snob/chiz boy/chiz gal/model c if your spitting is totally on the queens level?

That's a difficult q. I've got mixed feelings about that. I RESPECT NIGGAS WHO DO THEIR shit in venacular. bUT IF YOU DO IT IN ENGLISH, IT'S AIGHT. How else wud i hear Dead Prez, Mos Def, Kweli?

oh, by the way to Uncaged thot: i respect your word nigga, but im gona have to disagree on that Prokid being Kwai-Hop and doing it justice. That nigga is HipHop. I luv his deliverance and content. What's that u said about The essence of HipHop being its content?

Trusoul, i'mma have to answer u sum otha tym. peace.

[Uncaged Thot]

Lwaziology my nigga, i totally feel u. it takes a great person to apologise and i do apologise 4 labelling Prokid as a KWAI-HOP rapper. i think I let my emotions conquer my reasoning. i believe Prokid is very talented and I respect him 4 that. he is HipHop and i cnt contest that. i was a big Prokid fan/supporter until i listened to his track WOZA UZO BABONA.......Therz a line where he sez:"I LOVE CONSCIOUSNESS MAAR KUNINI NGIBHALA NGE-GRIEF" Prokid dznt understand what consciousness is about. u can be conscious without writing about grief.....it aint about grief.....it is about awareness of your surroundings.If your surrounding reflect grief, yes u will write about grief but don't complain about it like you were forced to do so. the whole point of writing about grief i believe it's to free yourself from it. so that line alone killed it for me and i don't see ressurection day any time soon. niggas need to know that what they say represents who they are. they need to know that word is born....word is immortal so things you say can't be erased, you say it, you said it. haai!, ,that line bafwetu, i can't get over that line. CONSCIOUSNESS AINT ABOUT GREEF IT IS ABOUT LOVE OF SELF. DON'T TALK ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW. Dead Prez is CONSCIOUS, yet they talk about HAPPINESS & BE HEALTHY in their album LET'S GET FREE......Is that grief?NO, I DON'T THINK SO! NIGGAZ NEED TO LEARN ABOUT CONCEPTS. HHP, LEARN ABOUT HARAMBE. PROKID LEARN ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS......DON'T ASSUME SHIT YOU DON'T LIVE.

[rhymetodie]

Prokid is commercial as FCUK an i hate tht!

[TeeZeR]

Uncaged Thot said:

...Therz a line where he sez:"I LOVE CONSCIOUSNESS MAAR KUNINI NGIBHALA NGE-GRIEF" Prokid dznt understand what consciousness is about. u can be conscious without writing about grief.....it aint about grief.....it is about awareness of your surroundings.
.......................
CONSCIOUSNESS AINT ABOUT GREEF IT IS ABOUT LOVE OF SELF. DON'T TALK ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW....NIGGAZ NEED TO LEARN ABOUT CONCEPTS. HHP, LEARN ABOUT HARAMBE. PROKID LEARN ABOUT CONSCIOUSNESS......DON'T ASSUME SHIT YOU DON'T LIVE.

Well and nuff said mah nikka, That tendency really destroys the true essence behind the concepts. You cant write about Harambee and jus be diverse in your verse, you cant write a track about Africa and thus have a line, "I'm an African" being the only line relevant to your title(Not related to H2O, this is an example)! There's always a research route that we should take if we want to deliver constructive and worthy stuff! Cos men this is where messages get lost, the kid in high school is introduced to these songs and thus all he will know is I'm an African, and then a whole lot of punchlines and humour, nothing else contructive! Let's be consistent on the message delivery!

[slemza]

rhymetodie said:

Prokid is commercial as FCUK an i hate tht!

something i don't understand here, i mean what's tha fcukin problem if the rapper makes a couple of rands of his project. honestly i'm stuck between the underground commercial shit, i don't see a reason why if you're underground you musn't be makin money. coz according to my knowledge any strategy that you're using to get your project to the people and makin money even if it's a little fortune thats commercialism.

[rhymetodie]

slemza said:

rhymetodie said:

Prokid is commercial as FCUK an i hate tht!

something i don't understand here, i mean what's tha fcukin problem if the rapper makes a couple of rands of his project. honestly i'm stuck between the underground commercial shit, i don't see a reason why if you're underground you musn't be makin money. coz according to my knowledge any strategy that you're using to get your project to the people and makin money even if it's a little fortune thats commercialism.

Wel i understand tht "How can i help tha poor if am one of them" ish there's nothin wrong wit makin Money bt tha problem is when u rap 4 money coz u end up compromising tha music to make sense(cents)..Prokid is jst so Commercial coz al he talk bout is girlz..Money..N all tht..We Wanna see Lyrical Skillz like Proverb does...

[Uncaged Thot]

SHO RHYME, U BROKE IT DOWN MAN...DAMN....BUT I GOTTA DISAGREE WITH U ON PROVERB MAN......I AINT FEELING HIM..HIS SIMILES ARE A JOKE..."I'LL BE BACK LIKE SHOULDER BLADES", FCK HIS ALBUM IS A BUNCH OF SIMILES...HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED IT "FIGURES OF SPEECH." BUT I LIKE HIM, HE DOESN'T DISRESPECT WOMEN.....

[addict]

"constistent on massage delivery"...I'm feelin that tazeer...